Hey Jack, love this article for it is exactly what I'm looking for. I've been following Attia for years and this explanation of Zone 2 fills in so many gaps.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. I have gotten my HR (from my H10 Polar chest strap) up to 182, thus my Max HR.
Hey Jane, this podcast on metabolic health made me think of you: https://peterattiamd.com/ama51/. Particularly around minute 20 when they talk about using HR to measure zone 2.
From the show notes:
Can you use heart rate to know if you’re in zone 2?
Yes and no, says peter
Peter found an app called Morpheus, which gives him 5 parameters each morning
How much he slept,
- Quality of sleep
- Heart rate variability and heart rate
- Also, to the extent to which he’s sore from the day before
- And his appetite to exercise that day.
The app then spits out training zones of heart rate
And there were three zones, zone 1, 2, and 3
But the breakpoint between 1 and 2, that heart rate is a very good proxy for what ends up being Peter’s zone 2
So he’s been tracking that number versus his RPE number, versus his lactate and power for every day
And after four months of collecting those data, it’s actually a very reasonable proxy for someone who doesn’t want to do the other stuff
Hey Jane, thank you so much! That makes me happy to hear.
My advice to find your true Zone 2 state would be to take the average of a few different methods:
A) True max HR * 78-81% (as you calculated: 142-148)
B) MAF 180 = 180 - your age
C) While exercising: Can you pass the talk test?
D) While exercising: Can you nasal breathe only?
If you're doing Zone 2 exercise with your HR somewhere between A & B (above) and can pass the talk test/nasal breathe only (C & D), you can fairly confidently say you're in Zone 2.
A couple of important notes:
*Getting to your true max HR is challenging (you have to work really hard) and possibly unsafe for some people. Many people who try to test max HR undershoot it.
*If you're well-trained, the MAF 180 may underestimate your MAX HR (see 4th bullet in blue box).
*If you're over 65 and use the MAF 180, the formula may need to be further individualized (see 2nd last bullet in blue box).
Both formulas account for age (MAF 180 is 180 less your age and Max HR times 78-81% implicitly accounts for age by testing Max HR).
Adjusting for gender is a great question. In this article (https://philmaffetone.com/female-hr/) they provide a “new female” formula for max HR (206 minus 88 percent of age) to replace the original formula of 220 minus your age. But they restate the MAF 180 without any caveat for gender adjustment.
I'm curious to see what your experience is. Next time you train in Zone 2, I'd be very interested to see if 180 minus your age accurately represents your max anaerobic function.
Hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Wow! That was a very comprehensive answer and way more than I expected. This is definitely the way to grow your business. :)
From the article you linked to it says your MAX HR is the highest rate you can maintain for 2-3 minutes. The one I've been using is the MAX my Polar app shows as MAX HR, one that I reached but probably did not maintain.
I know I'm getting into the minutia but I'd love to know this.
My pleasure, I'm always happy to help! And thank-you for joining as a Member.
Yes, so there are different max heart rate calculations out there which give you a rough estimate. But when you take an estimate of max HR (whether it be 220 minus your age or the number your Polar spits out) and then apply another estimate (multiplying by 78-81%) on top of it, you further dilute the accuracy.
A similar example in strength training is with one rep max (1RM) conversion charts. These charts estimate your 1RM based on the number of reps and weight lifted. But the more reps you do, the less accurate the chart gets. So for example, the 1RM conversion chart will be more accurate at 3 reps than 10 reps.
In my experience, using the talk test and doing pure nasal breathing are good enough proxies to ensure you're in a Zone 2 state. I run to get in my Zone 2 and breathe through my nose for the entire duration.
In the world of longevity, there is no limit to the level of detail and nuance you can explore. In the case of Zone 2, you could buy a lactate device to prick your finger and measure blood lactate levels. I'm a firm believer in listening to the science, but keeping things simple, practical, and actionable.
Prioritizing longevity is meant to enhance our lives, not consume it!
Thank you very much Jack. I have not yet listened to that episode so I definitely will today.
Hey Jack, love this article for it is exactly what I'm looking for. I've been following Attia for years and this explanation of Zone 2 fills in so many gaps.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. I have gotten my HR (from my H10 Polar chest strap) up to 182, thus my Max HR.
2. Therefore my zone 2 is from 142 to 148?
This is not adjusted for gender or age?
Hey Jane, this podcast on metabolic health made me think of you: https://peterattiamd.com/ama51/. Particularly around minute 20 when they talk about using HR to measure zone 2.
From the show notes:
Can you use heart rate to know if you’re in zone 2?
Yes and no, says peter
Peter found an app called Morpheus, which gives him 5 parameters each morning
How much he slept,
- Quality of sleep
- Heart rate variability and heart rate
- Also, to the extent to which he’s sore from the day before
- And his appetite to exercise that day.
The app then spits out training zones of heart rate
And there were three zones, zone 1, 2, and 3
But the breakpoint between 1 and 2, that heart rate is a very good proxy for what ends up being Peter’s zone 2
So he’s been tracking that number versus his RPE number, versus his lactate and power for every day
And after four months of collecting those data, it’s actually a very reasonable proxy for someone who doesn’t want to do the other stuff
Hey Jane, thank you so much! That makes me happy to hear.
My advice to find your true Zone 2 state would be to take the average of a few different methods:
A) True max HR * 78-81% (as you calculated: 142-148)
B) MAF 180 = 180 - your age
C) While exercising: Can you pass the talk test?
D) While exercising: Can you nasal breathe only?
If you're doing Zone 2 exercise with your HR somewhere between A & B (above) and can pass the talk test/nasal breathe only (C & D), you can fairly confidently say you're in Zone 2.
A couple of important notes:
*Getting to your true max HR is challenging (you have to work really hard) and possibly unsafe for some people. Many people who try to test max HR undershoot it.
*If you're well-trained, the MAF 180 may underestimate your MAX HR (see 4th bullet in blue box).
*If you're over 65 and use the MAF 180, the formula may need to be further individualized (see 2nd last bullet in blue box).
Both formulas account for age (MAF 180 is 180 less your age and Max HR times 78-81% implicitly accounts for age by testing Max HR).
Adjusting for gender is a great question. In this article (https://philmaffetone.com/female-hr/) they provide a “new female” formula for max HR (206 minus 88 percent of age) to replace the original formula of 220 minus your age. But they restate the MAF 180 without any caveat for gender adjustment.
I'm curious to see what your experience is. Next time you train in Zone 2, I'd be very interested to see if 180 minus your age accurately represents your max anaerobic function.
Hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Wow! That was a very comprehensive answer and way more than I expected. This is definitely the way to grow your business. :)
From the article you linked to it says your MAX HR is the highest rate you can maintain for 2-3 minutes. The one I've been using is the MAX my Polar app shows as MAX HR, one that I reached but probably did not maintain.
I know I'm getting into the minutia but I'd love to know this.
My pleasure, I'm always happy to help! And thank-you for joining as a Member.
Yes, so there are different max heart rate calculations out there which give you a rough estimate. But when you take an estimate of max HR (whether it be 220 minus your age or the number your Polar spits out) and then apply another estimate (multiplying by 78-81%) on top of it, you further dilute the accuracy.
A similar example in strength training is with one rep max (1RM) conversion charts. These charts estimate your 1RM based on the number of reps and weight lifted. But the more reps you do, the less accurate the chart gets. So for example, the 1RM conversion chart will be more accurate at 3 reps than 10 reps.
In my experience, using the talk test and doing pure nasal breathing are good enough proxies to ensure you're in a Zone 2 state. I run to get in my Zone 2 and breathe through my nose for the entire duration.
In the world of longevity, there is no limit to the level of detail and nuance you can explore. In the case of Zone 2, you could buy a lactate device to prick your finger and measure blood lactate levels. I'm a firm believer in listening to the science, but keeping things simple, practical, and actionable.
Prioritizing longevity is meant to enhance our lives, not consume it!